The former minister of the Federal Capital Territory was one of the few people that visited James Ibori when he was in detention in Dubai.
Mr. El Rufa'i tells NEXT why he went for the meeting and his impression of Mr. Ibori's state of mind.
Context of the meeting
I met with him twice, I think first on the 14th of March, which was on a Monday. I just wanted to see how he was doing and also ask him some questions about the Yar'Adua administration, because I am curious about how it worked and why Yar'Adua went after me.
I just wanted to understand and I have been visiting people that were close to him in that regard. I have met other people very close to him (Yar'Adua), to try to find out from them why he did what he did.
So, I called my friends in the Dubai police that I wanted to visit Ibori and they gave me a number of his cousin, a young man called Innocent. I called Innocent and he said he would relay that through Mr. Ibori and he called me back in an hour and said James wanted to be sure that no one was impersonating me. We agreed to speak the next day.
I went to the Dubai Police Headquarters, Interpol section, Economic Crime department, and I spent one and a half hours with James.
Was he allowed visitors as a matter of course or was an exception made because it was you?
He was allowed visitors on Mondays in the morning. I don't know if he was allowed visitors on other days, but I know for sure I saw him on Monday, on two Mondays between 9 and 11. He's allowed visitors, he has access to his phone, and he can make calls. Though he was in detention, it was not very restrictive.
What kind of life was he living in Dubai?
At that time I saw him, he was in police detention. Shortly after I returned, I read a report that he was granted bail. Now, granted bail means he could be at the hotel, but his passport was seized because he was not allowed to leave Dubai. I honestly do not know that for sure. I know that I saw him when he was in police detention. We spoke on the phone even when I came back to Nigeria.
How was he when you saw him?
Physically, he was in good shape, he had lost a bit of weight but he was looking good and relaxed. During my discussion with him, he was philosophical, saying "you know, this is how life is. Life has its ups and its downs. Some of the accusations against me are justified, but some are purely fabrication."
He looked like he was in good health and had resigned to his fate. I asked at that time if there was any further appeal and he said to me "well, I can't appeal anymore, this is the end. I am just waiting to go to London."
What was the nature of the meeting?
When we were both in government, I was not very close to James. I knew him just as the governor of Delta State, but we are not very close and quite frankly, I do not blame anyone for what Ya'Adua did to me. I blame Yar'Adua, pure and simple. I have no issue with any of the other people because I think that Yar'Adua was truly and personally responsible for my problems.
James was quite surprised that I came to visit him. Maybe he thought I came to laugh at him and so on, but I think he saw that I was only curious about what really happened. I said James, you and I have a civil relationship, we are not close friends, like you were with Nuhu, (James and Nuhu were very close friends and they used to meet in Andy Uba's house and Bukola Saraki's house).
But what did I do to Yar'Adua that he led this campaign against me. He said Yar'Adua was convinced that your group (the Olusegun Obsanjo economic team) had presidential ambition and you were opposed to his emergence as president, so he felt he had to deal with all of you: Nuhu Ribadu, Ngozi Okonjo-Iweala, and one of the issue was because one of the team was going to contest against him(Yar'Adua).
Who told him?
He said marabouts played a major role in his life and government and that may have contributed and as far as he was concerned, the information he got from OBJ that we were opposed to him. I said ok and I tried getting some few insights. It was a good conversation.
By the time I saw him, he was in incarceration for 9 months. He appeared adjusted to the state and was handling it quite well and he had visitors and was sending messages to Nigeria. My assessment of his emotional state of mind was that he was healthy and he was not looking distressed at all.
Maybe he would have looked different if I had seen him after he was arrested in Dubai, but we laughed about it. However, at a time he had to visit the hospital because of his blood pressure.
Did he explain how he left Nigeria?
I didn't ask specifically, but he was deceived by certain people in government and was betrayed by others he trusted and that's why he was surprised to see me. That people he helped betrayed him, but I didn't ask for any names.
What was the purpose of your second visit?
I went back to him to talk about local politics, who he would be supporting because, like it or not, he's a factor in politics and he said he was not in charge and that his brother in Delta State was. He said Jonathan was not his friend and that Nuhu was not his friend and he would be happy to support any candidate other than those.
When I read he was out of bail, I called and chatted with him and he read that I was a strong supporter of Buhari and he felt I should talk to some of the ex-governors to get support for Buhari. That was what we were talking about until a few days ago.
Why would you reach out to James Ibori?
Well, politics is about people and I felt I should explore that discussion. There was nothing on the table, there's no deal we will be offering him or anything. What he has done has caught up with him.
I thought if we could explore any discussion with his governor or if there's something that is possible, why not. But the discussion didn't go any further because James' approach to politics was let's talk to former governors, but my approach to politics is to talk to people, not choosing who is good or bad.
No comments:
Post a Comment