...Chides Ohaneze for railroading the Igbo to endorse Jonathan
From MODESTUS CHUKWULAKA, Abuja
From MODESTUS CHUKWULAKA, Abuja
 |
•Goodluck Ebelemi Jonathan |
Hon. Juventus Ojukwu was elected to the House of Representatives twice in the second republic. A commissioned officer of the Nigerian Army before the civil war, Ojukwu tells Daily Sun in this interview conducted in Abuja that as the 2011 presidential election draws by, Nigerians should look for the person who has the capacity to confront the twin evils of indiscipline and corruption which have been the greatest obstacle to national development. Fortunately, he says, Candidate Muhammadu Buhari of the Congress for Progressive Change (CPC) fits the bill.
Ojukwu is not happy that the Igbo socio-political organization, Ohaneze, had endorsed the candidacy of the incumbent President Goodluck Jonathan, and charges that Chief Ralph Uwechue and his cohorts railroaded the Igbo into the position without due consultation and wonders whose interest their action was meant to serve. According to him, in the process of endorsing Jonathan, Ohaneze has foreclosed the chances of the South-East producing the president of the country in the next 20 years.
Ojukwu is surprised that Igbo people are excited by the Ebele in the President’s name, and explains that it is short for Ebelemi which is an Ijaw word and not an Igbo name as many of them have supposed.
We must address indiscipline and corruption
I am not satisfied with what I see in the political atmosphere for the reasons that it appears that in spite of all we have gone through, Nigerians don’t appear to have grasped what our problems are. We talk about it, but we have not grasped it. The biggest problems confronting this nation today are indiscipline and corruption. And it is at the root of every other problem.
When you talk about power supply, when you talk about the road, when you talk about education, unemployment, infrastructure, indiscipline and corruption are at the root of it all because when money is voted and the people are corrupt, and there is no probity and integrity, you can’t develop. You can’t do anything; you can’t employ; hospitals will decay; universities are decaying, and it’s all because of indiscipline and corruption. And Nigerians don’t seem to be addressing it.
Everybody is crying and crying, this government is not good, this government is not good, but we don’t seem to be doing anything about it. Everybody seems to fear and praise the man who distributes the money. This doesn’t give much room for cheers. That’s one area. Another area is the apparent insecurity that is prevailing in the country today. We don’t seem to have learnt much from history, and a nation that does not learn from history is doomed to fail and decay.
There’s so much insecurity everywhere – killing, bombing, and what have you, and the people at the helm of affairs tend to look the other way. They only pay lip service to these problems, telling us government will do something about it, and nothing is being done - at least we are not seeing anything being done. And when you cannot secure lives and property, you cannot say you have a nation. These are areas that bother me in this period of electioneering. People are interested in wearing uniform and dancing and singing praises; that’s not electioneering. Issues are not being discussed.
From the presidential campaign, only one or two candidates have given the indication that they will address these issues. But one of them stand out on top of the bill, and that is Gen. Buhari. I don’t make any bones about it, I don’t feel shy about it, I am talking as a patriotic Nigerian. Buhari is known in this country as a person who is highly disciplined. And I happen to know him personally, and I can vouch for him. If Buhari comes to power, he can arrest this indiscipline. He had once tried to do it, and for the short period he was in power he succeeded.
People are saying it was idiagbon, but they forget that Idiagbon was his second in command. Buhari was the man calling the shots. He’s a taciturn kind of person, and not given to too much talking. Now about indiscipline, Buhari can handle it; in terms of corruption, he has shown that he is anti-corruption personified. And he has had the opportunity to be corrupt, and he has refused to be corrupt. Why can’t Nigerians look at his antecedents. He does not own propeties all over the places, whether here or abroad. So I think General Buhari can address these two nagging issues.
Buhari is not a bigot
There is something people hold against Buhari – against him in quotes - religion. And I don’t want to shy away from this issue because we must face the fact. People say Buhari is a religious fanatic, but he is not. Nobody has come to show how he is, whether by words of mouth or action. They attribute certain words to him which he did not say. I read somewhere where the renowned Monsignor Matthew Hassan Kukah, a catholic priest, wrote something few years ago when this matter was raging. He said Buhari didn’t say that.
And he said what Buhari said, vote for a God-fearing person. Buhari never said vote for a muslim, and you will be Buhari’s friend if you are God-fearing; that’s it, period. He’s not a fanatic. Maybe I’m a fanatical Christian myself, but I don’t think I’m a fanatic; I just like to practise my faith. He practises his faith, and if you practise your faith well, whatever religion you belong to, you are my friend because it means that you’re God-fearing.
CPC has no disdain for the South-East
I wouldn’t say CPC has disdain for the south-east because of the way Mike Ahamba’s bid to be the chairman of the party was truncated. I’m not an insider in the party, I must admit. And when I look at facts given by people, I judge them by what they say. If there is hidden agenda, I should be able to see. They had an issue; I read what Buhari said, and I was sympathetic to him. Buhari said Ahamba did not discuss this matter with him; did not tell him he had any interest, not that he had the power to do it if he had told him. But the party had decided to take a chairman from the South-South. Ahamba did not make his interest known. And when Ahamba complained, I was a bit disappointed, he went to the press.
When I’m dealing with my friends, I like to discuss with them, unless there is a big quarrel and we have fallen apart. There was nothing to show that they had fallen apart except when he went to the press, and Buhari said, since he complained to me through the press, I will answer him through the press. And what Buhari said was plain truth. You see Buhari doesn’t lie, even if he is joking; that’s one thing about him. Even it is against him, he says it as it is, that’s Buhari for you. He said he didn’t tell him and did not complain to him. He said the Board of Trustees of the party had decided that the chairman would come from the South-South.
How would I know the ground on which they took their decision? Let’s look at it from another angle. In the past three elections, Buhari had chosen his running mates from the South-East. When you are into an election, going to a contest, you look for areas and possibilities that will enhance your position. It is possible, I don’t know. But from what we read in the papers, Buhari chose Tunde Bakare, and gave his reasons why he chose him.
They had not been friends. It was not that he was looking for somebody from the South-West. It’s simply that it suits his bill, what he intends to do, the programme he wants to execute, that’s why he chose Tunde Bakare, and Tunde Bakare happens to be a Yoruba from the South-West. And it is possible that if Chuba Okadigbo, may he rest in peace, were still alive, he still would have chosen him. After Chuba Okadigbo in 2007 he chose Ume-Ezeoke, and we know how that ended. If I were in Buhari’s shoes, I would look
for somebody I will trust, who will go with me, swim and sink, and whatever I believe in he believes in. they have not been friends, but they met for the first time during the Save Nigeria Campaign. So that’s how I want you to look at it. Now about the zone and all that, I happen to know that Buhari does not disregard our people. And in any case, win or lose.
Ohaneze did not consult before endorsing Jonathan
I am not happy with the position taken by Igbo leaders on the presidential election; the way that Ralph Uwechue and some people in Ohaneze seem to have railroaded into Jonathan presidential project, saying we have all agreed to vote for Jonathan, claiming to have consulted with the people. I don’t expect them to consult with everybody, but if they consulted with people we would have known. It is typical Igbo politics, always the short term, not looking for the long run. A president from the South-South will not favour Igbo cause unless we have decided not to have a shot at the presidency in the next 20-30 years. Unless we have taken that decision, there is no way a South-South presidency will favour us.
But if we say as a people, for which I am proud to be one – if you are not a good ethnic person you cannot be a good Nigerian. So I am not being tribalistic or whatever. If Igbo people have decided they are not interested in the presidency, they can then go for the South-South, whether Jonathan or whoever. There was a beautiful analysis by Nnanna Ochereome in Vanguard, and many people have written, if the man is there, it only makes sense that after four years, if he is going to run one term, that the North will likely insist it will come to them, because they were short-changed this time around. So I think that is a very poor thinking by Ndigbo.
Secondly, Jonathan looks nice, but I have not seen him as a man I can trust politically, and I doubt his credibility. And a man with such a big question mark on his credibility, I cannot, with my yes open, tell my people to vote for him. If it must be somebody from the South-South, another person, maybe. Why do I say this? A man who cannot keep an agreement of his party, cannot be trusted to keep a national agreement. It’s simple. Don’t tell me it’s politics; I don’t think politics is opportunism. I have been a politician; I was a member of the National Assembly two times. I believe in politics with principles, even if it doesn’t favour me.
For a man who signed an agreement, his name was number 33 or 34, to now jettison it because there is an opportunity…and let me tell you, what led to the civil war was the reneging of an agreement. That’s what caused all the conflict. People say it is politics and it doesn’t matter, no. So Ndigbo are short-sighted in queuing behind such a person because he will not keep to his word in their regard.
Again, the next thing is, before Ralph Uwechue and others took that decision, they did not consider those who are likey to be our future friends politically. Now they are saying 2015 is not negotiable, and I laugh.
When Abba Aji said we should forget it, people abused him. He was merely stating the facts which are bitter. Now we don’t have political friends. Those we would have supported based on principles would have been candidates from the North. I am not saying it because I like the Northerner or I hate the Southerner, I say based on principle, on what is equitable and good. When it is now your own turn, you will have somebody who will support you. But now you are just blowing hot air, saying you must have it, how can you have it? Politics is a game of numbers. You don’t support me now, and tomorrow you expect me to come and support you. That’s why I’m against the leadership of Ndigbo in this matter.
Jonathan’s name is Ebelemi, it’s not Igbo
And look at, recently, Jonathan’s government appointed top management team for the NNPC, and 75 per cent of them was from Niger Delta, not one Igbo. The rest were from the North and West; because the man answers Ebele which is Ebelemi - it is not an Igbo name, his name is Ebelemi – the Igbo people are saying he is one of their own, it’s not Igbo; it’s an Ijaw name.
We have never had any political friend, and it is our making because we have not husbanded our political thinking properly. It is not because other people hate us, but because we have not managed our political affairs well. That’s why we don’t have political friends. And each time we are about to have political friends, we blow it. Take for instance during the Abiola era, that’s the time we could have had political friends from the West, but we failed to do that.
Ojukwu is not happy that the Igbo socio-political organization, Ohaneze, had endorsed the candidacy of the incumbent President Goodluck Jonathan, and charges that Chief Ralph Uwechue and his cohorts railroaded the Igbo into the position without due consultation and wonders whose interest their action was meant to serve. According to him, in the process of endorsing Jonathan, Ohaneze has foreclosed the chances of the South-East producing the president of the country in the next 20 years.
Ojukwu is surprised that Igbo people are excited by the Ebele in the President’s name, and explains that it is short for Ebelemi which is an Ijaw word and not an Igbo name as many of them have supposed.
We must address indiscipline and corruption
I am not satisfied with what I see in the political atmosphere for the reasons that it appears that in spite of all we have gone through, Nigerians don’t appear to have grasped what our problems are. We talk about it, but we have not grasped it. The biggest problems confronting this nation today are indiscipline and corruption. And it is at the root of every other problem.
When you talk about power supply, when you talk about the road, when you talk about education, unemployment, infrastructure, indiscipline and corruption are at the root of it all because when money is voted and the people are corrupt, and there is no probity and integrity, you can’t develop. You can’t do anything; you can’t employ; hospitals will decay; universities are decaying, and it’s all because of indiscipline and corruption. And Nigerians don’t seem to be addressing it.
Everybody is crying and crying, this government is not good, this government is not good, but we don’t seem to be doing anything about it. Everybody seems to fear and praise the man who distributes the money. This doesn’t give much room for cheers. That’s one area. Another area is the apparent insecurity that is prevailing in the country today. We don’t seem to have learnt much from history, and a nation that does not learn from history is doomed to fail and decay.
There’s so much insecurity everywhere – killing, bombing, and what have you, and the people at the helm of affairs tend to look the other way. They only pay lip service to these problems, telling us government will do something about it, and nothing is being done - at least we are not seeing anything being done. And when you cannot secure lives and property, you cannot say you have a nation. These are areas that bother me in this period of electioneering. People are interested in wearing uniform and dancing and singing praises; that’s not electioneering. Issues are not being discussed.
From the presidential campaign, only one or two candidates have given the indication that they will address these issues. But one of them stand out on top of the bill, and that is Gen. Buhari. I don’t make any bones about it, I don’t feel shy about it, I am talking as a patriotic Nigerian. Buhari is known in this country as a person who is highly disciplined. And I happen to know him personally, and I can vouch for him. If Buhari comes to power, he can arrest this indiscipline. He had once tried to do it, and for the short period he was in power he succeeded.
People are saying it was idiagbon, but they forget that Idiagbon was his second in command. Buhari was the man calling the shots. He’s a taciturn kind of person, and not given to too much talking. Now about indiscipline, Buhari can handle it; in terms of corruption, he has shown that he is anti-corruption personified. And he has had the opportunity to be corrupt, and he has refused to be corrupt. Why can’t Nigerians look at his antecedents. He does not own propeties all over the places, whether here or abroad. So I think General Buhari can address these two nagging issues.
Buhari is not a bigot
There is something people hold against Buhari – against him in quotes - religion. And I don’t want to shy away from this issue because we must face the fact. People say Buhari is a religious fanatic, but he is not. Nobody has come to show how he is, whether by words of mouth or action. They attribute certain words to him which he did not say. I read somewhere where the renowned Monsignor Matthew Hassan Kukah, a catholic priest, wrote something few years ago when this matter was raging. He said Buhari didn’t say that.
And he said what Buhari said, vote for a God-fearing person. Buhari never said vote for a muslim, and you will be Buhari’s friend if you are God-fearing; that’s it, period. He’s not a fanatic. Maybe I’m a fanatical Christian myself, but I don’t think I’m a fanatic; I just like to practise my faith. He practises his faith, and if you practise your faith well, whatever religion you belong to, you are my friend because it means that you’re God-fearing.
CPC has no disdain for the South-East
I wouldn’t say CPC has disdain for the south-east because of the way Mike Ahamba’s bid to be the chairman of the party was truncated. I’m not an insider in the party, I must admit. And when I look at facts given by people, I judge them by what they say. If there is hidden agenda, I should be able to see. They had an issue; I read what Buhari said, and I was sympathetic to him. Buhari said Ahamba did not discuss this matter with him; did not tell him he had any interest, not that he had the power to do it if he had told him. But the party had decided to take a chairman from the South-South. Ahamba did not make his interest known. And when Ahamba complained, I was a bit disappointed, he went to the press.
When I’m dealing with my friends, I like to discuss with them, unless there is a big quarrel and we have fallen apart. There was nothing to show that they had fallen apart except when he went to the press, and Buhari said, since he complained to me through the press, I will answer him through the press. And what Buhari said was plain truth. You see Buhari doesn’t lie, even if he is joking; that’s one thing about him. Even it is against him, he says it as it is, that’s Buhari for you. He said he didn’t tell him and did not complain to him. He said the Board of Trustees of the party had decided that the chairman would come from the South-South.
How would I know the ground on which they took their decision? Let’s look at it from another angle. In the past three elections, Buhari had chosen his running mates from the South-East. When you are into an election, going to a contest, you look for areas and possibilities that will enhance your position. It is possible, I don’t know. But from what we read in the papers, Buhari chose Tunde Bakare, and gave his reasons why he chose him.
They had not been friends. It was not that he was looking for somebody from the South-West. It’s simply that it suits his bill, what he intends to do, the programme he wants to execute, that’s why he chose Tunde Bakare, and Tunde Bakare happens to be a Yoruba from the South-West. And it is possible that if Chuba Okadigbo, may he rest in peace, were still alive, he still would have chosen him. After Chuba Okadigbo in 2007 he chose Ume-Ezeoke, and we know how that ended. If I were in Buhari’s shoes, I would look
for somebody I will trust, who will go with me, swim and sink, and whatever I believe in he believes in. they have not been friends, but they met for the first time during the Save Nigeria Campaign. So that’s how I want you to look at it. Now about the zone and all that, I happen to know that Buhari does not disregard our people. And in any case, win or lose.
Ohaneze did not consult before endorsing Jonathan
I am not happy with the position taken by Igbo leaders on the presidential election; the way that Ralph Uwechue and some people in Ohaneze seem to have railroaded into Jonathan presidential project, saying we have all agreed to vote for Jonathan, claiming to have consulted with the people. I don’t expect them to consult with everybody, but if they consulted with people we would have known. It is typical Igbo politics, always the short term, not looking for the long run. A president from the South-South will not favour Igbo cause unless we have decided not to have a shot at the presidency in the next 20-30 years. Unless we have taken that decision, there is no way a South-South presidency will favour us.
But if we say as a people, for which I am proud to be one – if you are not a good ethnic person you cannot be a good Nigerian. So I am not being tribalistic or whatever. If Igbo people have decided they are not interested in the presidency, they can then go for the South-South, whether Jonathan or whoever. There was a beautiful analysis by Nnanna Ochereome in Vanguard, and many people have written, if the man is there, it only makes sense that after four years, if he is going to run one term, that the North will likely insist it will come to them, because they were short-changed this time around. So I think that is a very poor thinking by Ndigbo.
Secondly, Jonathan looks nice, but I have not seen him as a man I can trust politically, and I doubt his credibility. And a man with such a big question mark on his credibility, I cannot, with my yes open, tell my people to vote for him. If it must be somebody from the South-South, another person, maybe. Why do I say this? A man who cannot keep an agreement of his party, cannot be trusted to keep a national agreement. It’s simple. Don’t tell me it’s politics; I don’t think politics is opportunism. I have been a politician; I was a member of the National Assembly two times. I believe in politics with principles, even if it doesn’t favour me.
For a man who signed an agreement, his name was number 33 or 34, to now jettison it because there is an opportunity…and let me tell you, what led to the civil war was the reneging of an agreement. That’s what caused all the conflict. People say it is politics and it doesn’t matter, no. So Ndigbo are short-sighted in queuing behind such a person because he will not keep to his word in their regard.
Again, the next thing is, before Ralph Uwechue and others took that decision, they did not consider those who are likey to be our future friends politically. Now they are saying 2015 is not negotiable, and I laugh.
When Abba Aji said we should forget it, people abused him. He was merely stating the facts which are bitter. Now we don’t have political friends. Those we would have supported based on principles would have been candidates from the North. I am not saying it because I like the Northerner or I hate the Southerner, I say based on principle, on what is equitable and good. When it is now your own turn, you will have somebody who will support you. But now you are just blowing hot air, saying you must have it, how can you have it? Politics is a game of numbers. You don’t support me now, and tomorrow you expect me to come and support you. That’s why I’m against the leadership of Ndigbo in this matter.
Jonathan’s name is Ebelemi, it’s not Igbo
And look at, recently, Jonathan’s government appointed top management team for the NNPC, and 75 per cent of them was from Niger Delta, not one Igbo. The rest were from the North and West; because the man answers Ebele which is Ebelemi - it is not an Igbo name, his name is Ebelemi – the Igbo people are saying he is one of their own, it’s not Igbo; it’s an Ijaw name.
We have never had any political friend, and it is our making because we have not husbanded our political thinking properly. It is not because other people hate us, but because we have not managed our political affairs well. That’s why we don’t have political friends. And each time we are about to have political friends, we blow it. Take for instance during the Abiola era, that’s the time we could have had political friends from the West, but we failed to do that.
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